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Liz: Welcome to the CARFAC Indigenous Protocols Podcast. I want to acknowledge I am currently on Treaty One territory, the traditional gathering place of the Anishinaabe, Cree, Oji-Cree, Dakota and Dene people and the traditional homeland of the Métis people.

CARFAC has engaged in a research and consultation initiative to create an Indigenous and Intellectual and Cultural resource guide and a toolkit for the visual arts sector, similar to the one from Australia. We aim to provide respectful Protocols around the use and protection of First Nations, Inuit and Métis visual art and culture materials. This can include information about who has the rights to reproduce, present and reference traditional and contemporary images, stories and symbols. The toolkit will be on the website Indigenous Protocols dot Art and will include all of our podcast interviews, our case studies and these materials will be available to our community members.

Today I have with us Heather Steinhagen and she's with the Canadian Craft Federation. The Canadian Craft Federation has done a brief document on what is cultural appropriation and it was offered by Heather. So welcome Heather.

Heather: Miigwech, thank you for having you for having me Liz.

Liz: So during this writing and researching of the document for the Craft Federation, what was the impetus for the Craft Federation to do this particular research?

Heather: It had always been on our minds as an organization, however, I think it was ignited mostly in June, when we started recovering the gravesites at the residential schools. And we really felt activated to produce something that's relevant to our mandate as well as something that would be useful to the general public, and so often we find Indigenous artwork reproduced and oftentimes unknowingly or knowingly. So, Canada has built its reputation a lot on the foundations of the visual representation of Indigenous artwork, so we felt it necessary to distinguish cultural appropriation vs. inspiration.

Liz: When I was reading the document, which is posted on your website, I really liked that, what is the cultural appropriation vs. appreciation, and how that discussion really plays out well in the piece.

Heather: We really wanted to make sure that folks didn't feel like an outsider in this conversation of cultural appropriation. Oftentimes, I feel cultural appropriation has this weight to it, a heavy weight to it and the idea was to insure that folks understood what cultural appropriation was and not to exclude folks from the conversation because of, you know, the complexity in the end the subtleties that there might be in there.

Liz: And when you're looking at moving forward with the document, and you released it on the Truth and Reconciliation Day, is that correct?

Heather: We released it right before. The idea was that it was close enough to the Truth and Reconciliation Day, but it made an impact because ideally folks are looking to read more about what Truth and Reconciliation day really means.

Liz: I think it was really good timing. And I also like that idea that, within this conversation about appropriation and some of the tools that are available for you know non-Indigenous people that are looking to create their moccasins perhaps. And there is a really interesting discussion on if you are non-Indigenous and you are taught by an Indigenous artist, that the piece you know created, cannot be sold. Can you talk about that a little bit?

Heather: Yes, in the document we had that example as cultural appreciation. For example if you're taking the course with an Indigenous mentor on how to build moccasins, you're gifted the knowledge and the skill that was passed down. However selling that and making a profit is another story.

And we tried to clarify that unless you have explicit permission from that mentor, who should have or may have explicit permission from their community to sell it or to gift it in order to sell, you don't want to sell anything that isn't necessarily yours. However what is yours is a pair of moccasins that you made and the skills that you learnt.

Oftentimes, I know it's different all over Canada and all over the world, but beadwork designs belong to a very specific family or family member. And it's important to keep that within the family and not to overexpose something that isn't yours. And the idea is you should still feel invited to explore the media and the methods on how others create because you're offered that. You know, courses are usually a safe zone, however, the moccasins or the moccasins that you create after, might not necessarily be a safe zone for you to sell and profit from.

Liz: I think that's a really great piece of information to share and it goes across the board as well and not just what's a moccasins and bead design but with no construction of teepees and construction of like a dreamcatcher cuz they're all like different between the communities that they're, you know, coming from.

And I think, it's another really important piece, is that not every Indigenous culture uses a dreamcatcher or you know has a teepee structure or all of the, I guess pan-Indian things that have come out that because of cultural appropriation from non-Indigenous businesses and groups. Did you find a lot of that within your research?

Heather: Yeah, I found a lot of romanticism of what Indigeneity is and like you said it's really the Hollywood version. It is the dreamcatchers, the totem poles, the teepees and like you said they're not all the same for every community. Every community has their own distinct art form.

And even still, a lot of it is much in the recovery phase because it was only a few decades ago when it was actually legal for Indigenous people to practice artwork and to practice their, it's not only artwork it's spirituality, self-representation, self-sufficiency. So I definitely ran into a lot of Indigenous romanticism and I think you know that's the basis of our marketing our mass media and mass media. And to put a simplicity stamp on things, right, it's often hard to get into the complexities of imagery.

Liz: Well, I think you brought up a really great point, is that it has only been a few decades. And with our new holiday, Remembrance Day, celebration day, from the from The Truth and Reconciliation, that idea of sharing that information that this is only been in effect for you know traditional dance and design and culture within the last few decades. I think people forget about that.

Heather: Yeah, I think it is easy to assume that all of the outlawed practices and the residential school happened a long time ago because we look at pictures and they're all in black and white. However, it really wasn't that long ago. We might be the first generations to not have to attend residential school, one of the few first generations that don't need to approach an Indian agent to leave the reservation. So in the spirit of truth and reconciliation, we need to discover the truth and then we can reconcile that.

Liz: And I like what you discovered about that idea of you know pigeonholing Indigenous artists within one style or format. And I think that really goes to that idea of pan-Indian. So many artists, they have their own style without having to be Norval Morrisseau, without you know those really distinct Morrisseau styles of Woodland and the contemporary Indigenous artist space. What did you discover about, you know, what that growth, within the contemporary realm as well?

Heather: Yeah, there's been lots of room made for traditional practices that have been passed down through Elders and mentors and communities. However, we do want to make sure that Indigenous Artists and makers don't feel pigeonholed. And that could look like creating beaded earrings or moccasins, that was a very specific way. And like you said, like Morrisseau style of painting.

And I think that goes back to the idea of romanticism again, and this is all in the spirit of reconciliation allowing artists to fully expand on their practice and to not, to not be geared by the market, to not be steered by the market. Meaning right now, I think beadwork is very trendy and very, I think sometimes, artists might feel like they can't branch off to do something else. So if a beader has been making your earrings forever and they want to do something more contemporary, it's important to allow that space if you're a curator or an organization, who can make that space.

Liz: And one of the pieces, I think a big recommendation in moving forward, what would you think one of the first things a non-Indigenous or a business would look at in developing those relationships?

Heather: Going back to the idea of pigeonhole is definitely give space to Indigenous folks, especially those who are interested. I think we're in a time where there's a lot of trauma by being emerged and I think we need to be very respectful of the time and the consideration it takes to unpack all of that. While, you know daily, on a daily basis Indigenous folks need to deal with this underlying trauma.

Right now it's very much in the news and very much in your face. So important as an organization or as another artist, if you're looking to collaborate, to give space and to be hundred percent respectful in that space and genuine in your effort to collaborate. I think that would be stop number one of stepping forward. Indigenous communities must be the leaders of the conversation of Indigenous cultural appropriation.

Liz: That'd be amazing. And so when you were doing the research for this document what were some of the main, you know, in your face appropriation examples that you came across?

Heather: Well Craft Council of BC did this wonderful project on Granville Island and they had gone to all the gift stores to see the representation of Indigenous artists. And the numbers are shocking. Unfortunately I don't have them in front of me, but I would want to say something around 70 percent were not carrying Indigenous artwork and that's kind of shocking because a tourist hot zone like Granville, you would expect some of that authentic collaboration.

However, much of what we'll find in our gift stores, and I would assume across Canada, are very mass marketed romanticized Indigenous iconography. And that includes keychains of totem poles or even there was one news article of the NHL using totem poles to market their teams and put mascots on the totem poles.

And I think, I'm not sure, I think a lot of these instances happen because folks are not informed of the impact of cultural appropriation. So long we've had this pre-colonial stereotype of what Indigeneity looks like and I think that also attached to what Canadianism looks like right. So I was very shocked to see in a lot of our airport stores and a lot of our gift shops, to have these very cheaply made mass-marketed Indigenous iconography in stores.

Liz: I was at the Calgary Airport a number of years ago and in their gift shop they had plastic totem poles and I just went, what do the totems have to do with Calgary, Alberta. Like it just didn't make any sense in that particular territory. You know, why would you put them there?

Heather: So I think as a visitor you'd see these as very authentic items but I think there's an opportunity there as a gift store to collaborate with your local community. And that is a lot of work and businesses especially now we're very busy and may be struggling with their time, however, it's important these connections are kind of make a break of what truth and reconciliation looks like. And if we're continuing to support these mass made items, we're continuing to support the erasure of Indigenous artists.

Liz: That's a really powerful statement, yeah. Okay thank you so much for your time. I really enjoyed this conversation and I suggest everybody, we'll put a link on the Indigenous Protocols website to your research piece and with the Canadian Craft Federation, I think that would be great. And thank you again.

Heather: Thanks so much for having me Liz and thank you so much to CARFAC. I know you are all doing excellent work in terms of copyright, artist rights. I think cultural, Indigenous cultural appropriation fits within the morality of copyright and protecting something that is revitalizing at the moment.