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Liz: I'd like to acknowledge we are on Treaty One territory, the traditional gathering place of the Anishinaabe, Cree, Oji-Cree, Dakota and Dene people and the traditional homeland of the Métis people.

CARFAC has engaged in a research and consultation initiative to create an Indigenous Protocol, Intellectual Cultural Property resource guide and toolkit for the visual arts sector. We aim to provide respectful protocols around the use and protection of First Nations, Inuit and Métis visual art and culture material. This includes information about who has the rights to reproduce, present and reference traditional and contemporary images, stories and symbols. The toolkit will be shared on the website, which will be indigenousprotocols.art and it will include all of our podcast interviews, case studies and also the materials will be available to our community partners.

Rosary Spence is a Mushkegowuk (Swampy Cree) from Peetabeck, otherwise known as Fort Albany First Nation, a remote community on the western shores of James Bay in northern Ontario. An accomplished singer, songwriter, designer, and visual artist, Rosary's Cree heritage is evident in the works she produces, both musically and visually. Currently residing in Toronto, Ontario, Rosary works within the Indigenous community as an advocate for cultural and language preservation by providing classes, workshops, and seminars based on the Traditional Knowledge gained from her maternal grandparents, her mentors, and life experiences.

As a designer, Rosary has been designing jewelry and custom leather works from a very young age. She was taught how to bead and create handmade leather works by her maternal grandmother, Fabiola Spence and in 2007, Rosary released a self-labelled fashion line titled “Designs by Rosary,” which includes Indigenous fashion and footwear, graphic apparel, jewelry, and accessories. In 2014, Rosary designed limited edition footwear and contributed original one-of-a-kind footwear to Manitobah Mukluk’s Storyboot Project.

In addition to her ongoing creative endeavours, Rosary also works as an Indigenous Learners Support Program Coordinator for the Faculty of Medicine at the University of Toronto. Soon, she aims to further enhance her skills and knowledge by pursuing higher education so that she may advocate for the health and wellbeing of Indigenous peoples in remote communities. There is evidence of a lack of adequate healthcare in the north, as well as limited access to nutritional foods which is one of the main factors in the ongoing health complications the communities struggle with. By utilizing her platforms as an artist, an advocate, and as an academic, Rosary's mission is to be a loud voice for change for these remote communities. Welcome Rosary.

Rosary: Hello, thank you.

Liz: I am really excited to have this conversation with you about our Indigenous Protocols project. I had been scrolling through Facebook and saw a post by you and you were holding up your registration from the Canadian Intellectual Property Office and so I wanted to have a conversation with you about that process and what was your inspiration to register your work.

Rosary: Okay, yeah for sure. I guess I can go to the beginning of what sparked that idea to register my artwork and what I’m going to be talking about is particularly my beadwork. So a few months ago it came to my knowledge there was a non-Indigenous company who was reproducing my designs on some footwear. And so I immediately contacted the company, I didn’t get a response right away but from that point I just went ahead and started the process of contacting a lawyer and finding out what my rights are as an artist. And this was a design that went back to 2014, when I first drew the designs and submitted them to another company that had permission to utilize some of the designs.

So I pulled up all my old paper work, all my original design work, all of my original contracts for the designs and contacted a lawyer. There were several layers I was in contact with and one in particular was very knowledgeable about copyright, intellectual property and guided me through the process of how to go about protecting my artwork. And he advised me that the best first step to take is to claim that artwork as my own. And also have documentation of when it was actually first published, which I did have. And then another lawyer after that advised me as well that I could go ahead and pursue a settlement of sort or something to the other company that was reproducing my artwork.

So I thought about it and thought this happens all too frequently with our artwork and most of the time, unfortunately, the other companies do get away with it, with the thief, essentially its thief right, and they make a lot of money off our original artwork and a lot of these designs are passed down through generations. And this particular artwork I was trying to protect is a design that comes from my own family from back up north, from Fort Albany area. My grandfather was the inspiration behind it. My grandma talked about the northern stars and there's just a lot of history and story behind the artwork as with a lot of our artwork across the nation. It has a story and it has culture, it's related to something and it comes from somewhere. And ultimately it's ours, it's in our bloodlines.

So the north star beadwork pattern, in beginning the process for it. I simply just went online as advised and I found the intellectual property website through the Government of Canada, I went through the whole process of claiming my artwork as mine and submitting what documents I needed to submit and paid a small fee then within about a week I received my certification that my work was copywritten and if you search my name and the name of the artwork its protected under the Canadian copyright law.

Liz: That process, the find of the, first the recognizing that that was your piece that was not being used with your permission, how did that come to your attention?

Rosary: I was actually brought to my attention through social media. The power of social media. This particular company had promoted their business website with this footwear that had my beadwork on it. And unfortunately the footwear is actually pretty identical to the original owner of the actual design of the footwear. And so, it was through social media where my friends brought it to my attention, like you know this looks an awful lot like your beadwork, you should look into this.

Liz: Wow, and then that process of you recognizing it was yours and then finding a lawyer. So were the lawyers in Toronto or how was that process?

Rosary: No, so what I did was, I was particularly interested in working with Indigenous lawyers and having Indigenous representation. So I just did a Google search. I went online and I searched for Indigneous copyright lawyers, Indigneous lawyers near me. You know, just the typical searches that one would do in Google. And I asked for advice from friends, and one of my friends from Edmonton, who recently won a case from an art center that was using her image without her permission, she guided me towards her lawyer that helped her win her case. So I approached that lawyer and she was the one that helped me through the whole process

Liz: When you went on to the Canadian Intellectual Property, into their registration, how much information did you have to provide, like historically, that this is actually your work and your image?

Rosary: There wasn't a lot of information that they actually asked for. It was basically the title of the work, I had to provide the date of the original publication of the work and claim myself as the author of the work and the creator of the work. And then also there’s a part where you have to talk about the work like what kind of work it is; is it written, is it artwork, is it visual and they pretty much say any kind of artwork you can create is considered visual artwork, and falls under that category. So that was pretty much the process in regards to presenting official documents that wasn't a part of the process.

Liz: And so you had spoken that there was an agreement previously with another business to use the image for a very specific length of time, has that business that has permission, have they gone after the other company?

Rosary: No, no, they haven't.

Liz: Okay, interesting. And so, the whole process, how long was it from awareness to completion?

Rosary: I would say the entire process took about a month.

Liz: Wow, that's not long at all.

Rosary: No, no it wasn't long. It was a pretty quick process. And I think, partially that was due because I just got on it right away and I just did what I had to do right away. I didn't hesitate and I knew that time was of an essence when it comes to something like that. It was pretty serious and I really want to make my point clear. Loud and clear. And I specifically asked this other company, I said you know, I'm willing to work with you as a designer, I'm willing as an Indigenous designer, and they wouldn’t accept any of my offers in that sense. They were quite content with the work that they were doing already.

Liz: And so, will you also look at using the registration for other design works now that this experience has happened?

Rosary: Oh for sure, and it's something that I'm promoting to other Indigenous artists as well. Like once you create something, copyright your work and have it protected because this happens too often without us even knowing about it. You know there's so many cases where, you know, artists from a rural community, isolated community, will sell a piece of artwork and it ends up in another part of the world and sold for millions of dollars at auction. You know that happens all the time, so if we begin protecting our artwork we could also benefit from our own artwork. And that's how it should be happening anyway you know.

Liz: Yes because some would take those images and put them on to cups and t-shirts.

Rosary: Yeah, exactly. I see that a lot. Especially well-known artists will have their artwork stolen and you know they get put on some website that's on the other side of the world. And these, I don't know what to call them, but let's just call them the conglomerate, they steal the artwork and they distribute them, cups, postcards, anything, calendars, t-shirts everywhere and half the time like they get away with it because it happens usually through a third party and that third party is very hard to find.

Liz: And so the original design was from 2014 and you had all of the I guess records that you needed and I think that's another really important aspect in being able to register work. That when artists are creating new works from their own stories from their own community, that they keep track of it.

Rosary: Yeah, a part of our history is, a lot of it is oral, like we don't have a history of writing things down but in modern society and how things are evolving, it's starting to be more and more important for us to write things down, you know, and keep track of where things are going. I really encourage all artists when you create something, keep a database of it, get a copyright for it. It's not very expensive, really I think it was $35 to pay towards the Intellectual Property Office for your application for registration. So if it's a very important piece to you then I'd advise, recommend, that you do that. And then also, I just have a file folder at home of contracts going back to the early 2000s when I started doing a lot of work and taking contracts because who knows right, anything can happen and it's better to keep record of your work and especially protect your work in that way.

Liz: Well that is really amazing, that all of this, that process only took a month. But again, in that month there was all of the anguish and frustration and you had tried to negotiate without having to go through the whole process but and I think the like registering with the Canadian Intellectual Property Office, I think most artists probably didn't know how to do that or where that information was, so I think it's really valuable.

Rosary: I think this is something that potentially communities can start promoting and start offering workshops, you know, for all the artists in the communities. Like if we can get maybe a representative from the office or an outreach team, to reach these communities maybe in their economic development offices, and just say you know you know, this is a really good idea. Like to consider copyrighting your work and your intellectual property and maybe even developing a trademark.

You think about the Navajo Nation, how they trademarked their Navajo Nation and their pottery and all sorts of things that they trademarked that a lot of companies can't touch it now because they'll get sued for it. So our Nation's, we need to start protecting our work, like everything from our leatherworks to our visual works, to our culture, you can talk about cultural trademarks. I think this has really opened my eyes to a whole new world that we really didn't have access to growing up, like we had a very simple life going up, up north and you don't think about things like that.

And my grandmother was a really famous, in our community famous, leatherworker. She made amazing moccasins and mukluks, hats and mitts and she knitted everything she sewed everything, she was just an amazing creator. And you know she would sell her item to tourists coming in and out of town or the reserve and who knows that person could have went ahead and sold it for god knows how much more money after that right. So it's just a matter of like I think, we just need to come together and start protecting our work because how many companies do you see out there around the world that are creating mukluks and moccasins and they're non-Indigenous, they don't know like the stories behind them or where they originate from, they're just looking to make money, right. That appropriation of culture that is, really infuriates me.

Liz: And so, for the next series that you'll be registering, are they also older works or they will be some new designs you've been working on?

Rosary: I think everything from this point forward I will be registering and then also some important pieces that maybe I have presented online I will go ahead and I've already started the process of registering most of those already. From anything that I've published online, that's the ones I'm considering for registration and anything from now on for the future. It’s also really good to copyright your name as an artist. So register yourself and copyright your name as an artist too if your name is attached to anything you can trademark yourself.

Liz: Wow, that's really interesting and have you done that?

Rosary: Not yet, but that is in the works. I'm still, I think pretty new at this myself, but I’m learning a lot along the way and that's another one of my steps and what’s actually really interesting about me is that I don't know any other Rosary Spences in the whole entire world, like I have yet to meet another Rosary so, it helps if you have a unique name I think.

Liz: Well that's wonderful, thank you so much for all this information and for joining us today. I really appreciate it, so thank you very much.

Rosary: Thank you so much.