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Liz: Well thank you everybody for joining us. I would like to introduce Lou-ann Neel, an artist out in BC. And she's going to share a story with us on a particular Protocol that when we're looking at our Indigenous Protocol handbook that we're doing, how this sample is one of the best practices in being able to have artists and community move forward. Welcome Lou-ann.

Lou-ann: Thank you. Yeah, the example I really would love to share today, it actually goes back to the 1940s with my grandmother. Her name was Ellen Ika’wega Neel and she's from the Newman family of Alert Bay and Fort Rupert, and she was one of the few woman carvers of her era. She lived in Vancouver and the UBC Thunderbirds in the mid-1940s declared the name Thunderbirds for their varsity teams and my grandmother was really worried about that because not a lot of Indigneous communities were happy about that.

So what she did was, she approached UBC and offered to make their name official and proper, as she says, quote unquote in the Indian way. And so, what she did was working together with her Uncle, Chief Bill Scow, and the, what was then the Native Brotherhood organization, had a log brought down from our territory, and spoke with the Musqueam people. So the first layer of Protocol was because she was in someone else's territory, she went to their Chiefs and their Elders and asked permission to put a totem pole on their territory and they gave them permission. So she made this pole and she gifted it to UBC, so that they could legitimately have the name Thunderbirds on their varsity teams.

And this totem pole with the Thunderbird on the top would sit on the campus as a reminder to everybody that the Protocols of putting a name on somebody had been done properly, placing a pole in someone else's territory had been done properly and that the ceremony to bring all of those things together. It actually took place during the halftime game at the homecoming game of the UBC Thunderbird football team, all were present, the Musqueam people, UBC, my grandmother and our family. And so, I think it's one of the best examples not only of Protocols, traditional Protocols, from Nation to Nation being carried out but from an institution to a family, and a family that's representing the Kwikwasut'inuxw in this instance.

So that I think was really important and the relationship continued. In about 2002, the pole had decayed so severely, the original pole, that it had to be taken down and our family, working with our Chief Uncle Edward Newman, made sure that the pole is replicated. And that Calvin Hunt and Mervin Child helped to replicate the pole, and we rededicated the pole following all the same long Protocols that took place in 1948. So a long history of Protocols and respect and consultation with one another and as a result of those two instances, our family and the folks at UBC have maintained a really strong relationship when it comes to anything involving the Thunderbirds.

Liz: So how was it to come from Alert to the interior and know what those Protocols were in asking about permission to be able to install a totem pole in their territory?

Lou-ann: Those are long standing Protocols, amongst all of our Nations in BC. First Nations people and all of the historic trade roots we had and community ties we have allies that we have from different Nations, those were all very much in place long before visitors arrived on our shores. So, what my grandmother did was actually customs that we had already been doing for a millenia anyway. So it was very appropriate for her to carry out all of that the way she did and with the support of not only her uncle and someone from our potlatch system but also a representative of a modern organization, the Native Brotherhood.

Liz: That would be really exciting and so those are all shared stories orally there's not a written history so they would know within that community what that oral, I guess, permission process would be. They would know what to bring.

Lou-ann: Well it's actually, it's a really interesting kind of thinking, misnomer isn’t the right word but it's a misnomer that these things weren't written down. They are actually written into the artwork itself, the art and what it represents, you have to understand the symbolism and what the different things represent, which is part and parcel of this larger discussion and what I mentioned in our previous talk around cultural and intellectual property rights.

Cultural rights include the arts and everything they mean and all of the connections they have to individuals, families and the whole Nation. So it is very complex, but we did have a writing system, it’s seen in everything from our baskets to our totem poles to our big houses, the figures painted on the front of those big houses, rather than a sign above the door it covers the whole house front to say this is the house of whomever the Chief is.

Liz: That sounds wonderful. And so when the totem pole had deteriorated how was that process in determining who would be able to carve a new one? How that process worked to be able to replicate a piece of art that was already done by a different artist, cuz that would be a different Protocol process.

Lou-ann: Yeah, yeah and actually that's where, I think we had a very fine line between Protocol and process. On the Protocols side, in that there are traditions various artists offer different particular skills, Calvin is very well known for his ability to do the exact replica work. He's done many of these over the years with different museum institutions, galleries and for families.

On the process side what we were required to do because we were working within the institutional framework of the university, was to go through a bidding process. And so ultimately, it really first and foremost had to go through a bidding process but of course we encouraged Calvin to and shared the posting with him so that he could consider that and then different family members were thinking about being involved as well.

What it really came down to in the end was the practical, the time of year it needed to be done and the short time frame that it had to be created in order for our ultimate goal, which was we wanted to be able to dedicate that new replicated pole around the same time as it has been rededicated in 1948, so we were aiming for october. And so all those variables came together on the protocols side. It was most important that the repeat of the 1948 ceremony, that was the most important part.

Liz: Did you also bring another pole down from Alert?

Lou-ann: Alert Bay?

Liz: Yeah, like the actual pole to carve.

Lou-ann: Oh another log. Yeah, actually yes, it came from our territory, it didn't come directly from Alert Bay.

Liz: Well I think that's a really good example of communities that have protocols and have continued to use those Protocols in place. It's a really good example.

Lou-ann: I think there are quite a few good examples and it would be nice to share some of those rather than always saying that wasn't done right. Let’s start sharing how it is done right.

Liz: All right, well thank you so much Lou-ann.

Lou-ann: Thank you.